48 Responses

  1. brent peterson says:

    this is the most depressing thing I’ve read in quite awhile. (says the guy with a 3:50 cushion)

  2. Jimmy says:

    The number requalifying at Boston 2018 rose? In pouring rain and 30mph headwind?

    • Ghost says:

      Heat and humidity have a significantly higher effect on performance than wet, cold, windy rain. Now don’t get me wrong, cold/wind/rain scores higher on the misery index, but its heat/sun/humidity that slows you down more.
      I mad a lengthy Facebook post about this back in April

    • Ghost says:

      https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10215268137114115&id=1155094285

    • Greg says:

      The wind wasn’t really a factor. Only a few places did you feel it. If you were out there and finished you ran plenty in crappy weather.

  3. cory golden says:

    6:40 cushion. Now I’m nervous

  4. Milt Plumb says:

    All the B.A.A needs to do is not accept the downhill marathon times as BQs.

    • Ray C says:

      Boston is a downhill marathon.

      • Tony says:

        Not a 5000-foot elevation drop like the Revel Marathon Series. It’s a joke. Runners from California flock to them.

      • Tony Romero says:

        Not a 5000-elevation drop like the Revel Marathon series. It’s a joke. People in California flock to them.

        • admin says:

          Relatively few runners qualify from those races.

          • David Tikiob says:

            9 of the top 25 BQ marathons (on a % basis) are considered downhill marathons
            http://findmymarathon.com/bestbostonmarathonqualifiers-2018.php
            1 Last Chance BQ.2 Marathon (Grand Rapids)
            Grand Rapids, MI
            61.5%
            107
            2 Spring Chance BQ.2 Marathon
            Geneva, IL
            54.8%
            98
            3 Last Chance BQ.2 Marathon
            Geneva, IL
            52.6%
            122
            4 Marshfield Road Runners New Years Day Marathon
            Marshfield, MA
            50%
            1
            5 Johnny Miles Marathon
            New Glasgow, NS
            46%
            23
            6 Erie Marathon at Presque Isle
            Erie, PA
            45.7%
            676
            7 Rivanna Greenbelt Marathon
            Charlottesville, VA
            42.9%
            6
            8 Light at the End of the Tunnel Marathon
            North Bend, WA
            40.4%
            203
            9 Warm up Columbus
            Dublin, OH
            40%
            20
            10 Tunnel Vision Marathon
            North Bend, WA
            39%
            196
            11 Beantown Marathon
            Hingham, MA
            39%
            89
            12 Tunnel Light Marathon
            North Bend, WA
            38.4%
            193
            13 REVEL Mt. Hood Marathon
            Portland , OR
            36.5%
            220
            14 Boston Marathon
            Boston, MA
            35.7%
            9,178
            15 Super Marathon (Cascade Super Series)
            North Bend, WA
            34.1%
            88
            16 Mountains 2 Beach Marathon
            Ventura, CA
            33.4%
            631
            17 Boston Bound Marathon
            Suwanee, GA
            33.3%
            9
            18 Chasing the Unicorn Marathon
            Washington Crossing, PA
            32.9%
            23
            19 Baie-des-Chaleurs Marathon
            Carleton, QC
            31.8%
            20
            20 Via Marathon
            Easton, PA
            31.4%
            224
            21 Cornwall Run to End MS Marathon
            Cornwall, ON
            30.3%
            60
            22 Kamloops Marathon
            Kamloops, BC
            30.3%
            23
            23 Sugarloaf Marathon
            Kingfield, ME
            30.1%
            168
            24 REVEL Mt. Charleston Marathon
            Las Vegas, NV
            29.6%
            387
            25 REVEL Rockies Marathon
            Morrison, CO
            29%
            198

    • Maggie Barns says:

      Boston ITSELF is one of the fastest types of downhill courses – Lol.

      Having run over 50 marathons I can tell you one thing, Downhill courses don’t equate to PR’s for a lot of people, go look up elite runners for instance, almost none of them have a PR in Boston. The fastest types of courses aren’t the ones with thousands of downhill, it is something with a gentle downhill and rollers sprinkled in so you are changing muscle groups to prevent extreme soreness at the end.

      • k free says:

        clueless…bosto isnt a downhill course like the 2000 foot slow declines the entire course….those are a a joke and shameful to use to qualify…10 min advantage before u start..just run 25 miles and call it a day

        • David Tikiob says:

          k free – totally agree massive downhill shouldn’t be accepted for BQ’s

          • That Guy says:

            Fully agree that downhill courses with ridiculous drops shouldn’t be considered. Or at least there should be some way to ‘normalize’ (if that’s the right word) times run on such courses so that they can be compared to times run on courses that aren’t as steep.

    • Greg says:

      Boston itself is downhill. Kind of tough to tell you they won’t count.

  5. Teddy Roose says:

    Women flat out have it way too easy. Really, women have to run a 3:35…? The womens standards are punishing everyone as its so easy to overqualify as a chick. Come… ON.

    • Jillian says:

      Ooh, you sound like a bitter under-achieving runner Teddy! But I bet you’re the first guy in the room to stand up and say women are not as good as or strong as their male counterparts, right?

    • Argentinian Marsupial says:

      Teddy, I couldn’t agree more with you. I have paced over 20 marathons. I can’t tell you how many of them I have first time females BQing (and not even knowing that they are BQing until i tell them). I have NEVER ever paced a 3:05 where i was with a guy who didn’t even know that he was running a BQ – because it takes a boatload of training to hit a BQ. Women can qualify off 25 miles a week, men it requires 50-85mpw.

      • admin says:

        I’ve run Boston 7 times, never averaging more than 40 mpw. We’re all different.

      • Ghost says:

        Teddy and Argentinian Marsupial,
        The facts do not support your assumptions.
        The Male/Female make-up of Boston runners is still skewed more towards MEN than it is women when you compare it to either the overall marathon community, the running community, or the general population as a whole.
        I could give you about 13 more areas where the facts prove your assumptions to be wrong. But I’ve also found when I engage in this argument, I’m debating someone who already has a built-in bias, and no matter how many facts they are shown, they refuse to accept that they are wrong. So, having learned my lesson, I’m going to walk away now.

        • Ghost says:

          Further to the point of the Admin about mileage:
          I’ve averaged 35 miles/week in 2018 (1,275 miles as of Sunday, and 36 whole weeks in 2018 = 35.4/week)
          And over the past 18 weeks while training for a marathon, I only averaged 33.3 during my 16 week training cycle and just ran a 3:05:04 on Sunday (BQ is 3:15, so this is almost exactly a 10:00 BQ, off of 33.3 miles/week (532.8 miles in the 16 week cycle)

          • That Guy says:

            What is saying I BQ’ed off 33.3 miles/week supposed to prove? Were you an athlete growing up? If you were, then it’s possible that you can BQ averaging 33.3 miles/week. Most lay runners cannot. Many of us took up running later in life. We have to work hard at it.

            Also, nobody considers runners’ weights. Heavier runners are at a big disadvantage! I’m 46 and 205lbs and I can tell you that it’s not easy lugging my weight over 26 miles, especially over those last 6-8 miles.

        • k free says:

          women do have it much easier for boston and the stats actually prove it. but I won’t get into that and honestly im all good with women having a huge advantage getting into boston…men have advantages is so many things unfairly its good for women to as well..go girls!

        • feathers says:

          Mens WR = 2:01:39
          Womens WR = 2:15:15

          Delta = 14 mins

          For elites, a men’s 2:05 is equivalent to a women’s 2:20 (15 min spread). 30 mins is waaaay to much time (and I’m a feminist!). It should be ~ 20 mins but I think going to 25 mins is a good compromise. I would also drop 5 mins for age groups 45 through 59. Then we can all get back to the magic of crossing the finish line of your qualifying marathon and say “I’ve punched my ticket, I’m going to Boston”! I miss those days. Instead of, I sure hope that was fast enough?

  6. AMF says:

    Have you factored in those who will be a year old on race day, therefore will have qualified for their new age group? For instance, if you’re 34 in 2018 and don’t run under you’re qualifying time, you will be 35 on race day in 2019, and your age bracket cushion could move you into the a qualifying time.

    I’m sure those applicants would skew your predicted numbers as they do not show up on http://www.marathonguide.com even though the disclaimer is mentioned below any given result.

    • admin says:

      Your points are valid, but nothing we’re doing has enough precision for those things to matter. We have four data points with a lot of noise. I was just having fun chasing numbers.

      On the other hand, if the cutoff is anywhere near 4:03, I take full credit.

  7. Rex says:

    I predict the cutoff will be ~3:16 for 2019. Two things in my prediction:
    1) There is a clear trend that the cutoff time goes up and then down.
    2) Last year miserable conditions will scare off a lot of runners.

    Math is fun!

    • Ryan says:

      Look at the posts from BAA imdoxatimg cut off will be worse this year. Increase in applications in week 1 and small percentage of week 2 will be accepted.

  8. Cristi says:

    I am praying you are right says the girl (who tried 6x and felt it was a VERY hard standard for HER) with a 4:11 cushion.

  9. Amanda says:

    Here I sit at a 4:05. Fingers crossed.

  10. John says:

    My friend who runs Boston every year was 20 minutes slower than average this year in the wind and rain. He thought most were. I’m rationalizing why my 3:08 cushion will be enough.

  11. matt says:

    3:44 cushion here. any idea when we find out?

  12. Marty Coleman says:

    I am at 4:34 below my BQ of 3:55. Keeping my fingers crossed and wishing I had pushed just a little harder to keep up with the only guy who passed me in the last 16 miles who said ‘I need to be at 3:49’ as he went by…

  13. David Tikiob says:

    Thanks for this website and in particular this post! I am a math teacher and have used this post in math class. I am 4:21 under. Most of my students are saying this year is going to be super competitive so the cutoff will be in the high 4 minute range. They are predicting I will not be running in 2019. Their rationale is that interest in this race is at an all time high so demand will drive times to a historic high. The suspense is killing us. Hopefully they’re mistaken. I can’t remember what my entry time I submitted for the contest but if I don’t get in hopefully I’ll at least get one of your t-shirts!

    You should do a contest on what day they will release the final applicant list! Does it always take this long?

  14. Matt says:

    I’m at 4:37, run at Boston this year, I don’t think the headwinds, rain and especially the miserable experience of waiting in Hopkinton for the race to start helped lol.

    My BQ in 2017 in Myrtle Beach was 9 minutes faster in ideal weather.

    I’ve got my fingers crossed that your prediction is closer to being right than your model’s prediction.

  15. Ted Chen says:

    So Ray, since the cutoff time came in significantly higher than your prediction, just wondering if you will be doing a postmortem analysis. A number of people would be very interested in what you have to say!

  16. Ted Chen says:

    Thank you Ray for your post mortem analysis! I guess the word is “follow your instructions.”

  17. Greg says:

    Why not take an average of a few key marathon’s average finishing times. Also remove the lower 30% of finisher from your average. it is a lot easier to run slower than faster. Given you have 5 years prior data to use you may be able to get a 95% confidence interval which is good enough for most. Those last races can make a big difference. Erie which is a flat marathon has about 2000 runners and in 2017 had over 40% bq times. That is 800 people who made the published time and probably put their entry in. So to say last chance races don’t really make much difference is an inaccurate assumption. I wish I knew more about stats to assist. I hope with the new times my 4:03 faster than the new time gets me in.

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